Christmas Layoffs at WotC

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:54 pm

Rich Baker wrote:Today, Wizards of the Coast eliminated my position. I have unfortunately been let go, after more than 20 years of employment with TSR/WotC.

-Username17

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:25 pm

Yeah, heard about it from Dork Tower (not specifically Rich, but that WotC had laid people off).

I am so glad I didn't bother pursuing a job with them.

...You Lost Me · Post by **...You Lost Me** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:17 pm

Shitty time to be let go....

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:20 pm

Yep, WotC is dicks.

ishy · Post by **ishy** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:40 pm

So, I'm terrible with names.

Is it a good or a bad thing for 5e dnd that Rich Baker is now gone?

Tumbling Down · Post by **Tumbling Down** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:44 pm

I thought they stopped with the christmas lay-offs?

Never change WotC, never change.

Josh_Kablack · Post by **Josh_Kablack** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:54 pm

ishy wrote:So, I'm terrible with names.

Is it a good or a bad thing for 5e dnd that Rich Baker is now gone?

Neither. According to Wikipedia, his name hasn't been on any D&D crunch since 2004 and he seems to have been focused on A&A minis and cranking out D&D novels while keeping up a developer blog and some other web content since then. It also seems likely that he'll keep right on cranking out those novels.

Previn · Post by **Previn** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:29 am

How exactly do they intend to continue as a company when they're firing anyone and everyone? I never really followed the who-is-who at WotC, especially not since 4e, but anyone that I've ever heard about as part of D&D seems to have been tossed off besides Mearls, and the rehiring of Cook (which seems to have been dubious of a move at best).

Is there even anyone left that could work on 5e at this point without it being clearly a product that will fail?

koz · Post by **koz** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:36 am

After Tom LaPille was moved off Magic and into DnD, I think I understand. WotC uses DnD as a 'last chance' section for employees they want nowhere else, especially not near products which aren't shit.

Which means 5e will be a snivelling trainwreck, but I'm not surprised.

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:46 am

Sinister gets it right.

theye1 · Post by **theye1** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:53 am

Christmas Layoffs? If WotC were a little bit more relevant, it would a PR disaster.

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:45 am

theye1 wrote:Christmas Layoffs? If WotC were a little bit more relevant, it would a PR disaster.

This is nothing new. WOTC has been firing people at Christmas for years. In fact, if I worked there, I'd start stealing pens & paperclips come November.

And I think Sinister is right. D&D is your last wobble through WOTC before they can you.

theye1 · Post by **theye1** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:28 am

TheFlatline wrote:
theye1 wrote:Christmas Layoffs? If WotC were a little bit more relevant, it would a PR disaster.
This is nothing new. WOTC has been firing people at Christmas for years. In fact, if I worked there, I'd start stealing pens & paperclips come November.

And I think Sinister is right. D&D is your last wobble through WOTC before they can you.

Which says quite a lot about WotC as a business, regardless of the quality of their products. It's sadly a reflection of almost the entire Industry, where TTRPGs companies are run by people with a minimal amount of Business Acumen.

(Holy fuck, Catalyst Game Labs takes the cake though).

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:18 am

Rich Baker is the headline author on the 4e Dark Sun material. I think him going away during this year's Christmas layoffs says more about Dark Sun failing to live up to expectations than it does about the overall quality of his writing or designs.

-Username17

Dog Quixote · Post by **Dog Quixote** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:15 am

FrankTrollman wrote:Rich Baker is the headline author on the 4e Dark Sun material. I think him going away during this year's Christmas layoffs says more about Dark Sun failing to live up to expectations than it does about the overall quality of his writing or designs.

-Username17

How could it have? They pretty much canned the entire original 4E line the moment they released it. It saw precious little support even in Dragon and they've never even given it decent errata.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:30 pm

Dog Quixote wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote:Rich Baker is the headline author on the 4e Dark Sun material. I think him going away during this year's Christmas layoffs says more about Dark Sun failing to live up to expectations than it does about the overall quality of his writing or designs.

-Username17
How could it have? They pretty much canned the entire original 4E line the moment they released it. It saw precious little support even in Dragon and they've never even given it decent errata.

Well, getting and keeping the Dark Sun stuff relevant to 4e players was Rich Baker's actual job for the last year and a half. So if Dark Sun stuff didn't get the support it needed to have had a chance at going somewhere, it's not so much "them" as "him". If what you say is true (TBH: I never read a single 4e Dark Sun book because I found the 4e teasers insulting), then you have a pretty compelling reason to can the guy.

-Username17

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:52 pm

Oh, Dark Sun's failure isn't all Baker. Don't forget this pile.

Previn · Post by **Previn** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:00 pm

I have read the 4e Dark Sun, and I've played in Dark Sun way back when and frankly the 4e one is down right insulting, on top of 4e not being a good fit for the harshness of the setting, and the layout of 4e books making it even worse.

The actual fluff is almost non-existant in the book, let alone the feel that made the setting back in the day. Out of the first 130 or so pages, there's maybe 8 if you put bits together that actually really relate to Athas, most of the rest could be just about any generic fantasy world.

So I can see Baker getting canned because of Dark Sun, but at the same time, 4e is kind of a wasteland for actual design and settings. I sort of suspect that 4e has a generic setting because you can't build a setting in the 4e books and have it get any traction. You have to rely on previously established stuff.

Swordslinger · Post by **Swordslinger** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:35 pm

4E Dark sun was a terrible idea in general. Dark Sun is supposed to be a story about survival in a harsh land. 4E pretty much handwaves all the difficulty of surviving in the setting and is more about getting to the combats. And once you ignore the whole flavor of the setting, Dark Sun becomes a boring monocolor desert setting.

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:05 pm

Speaking of which, is Ms. Magic Missile Meatballs (Shelly Mazzanoble) still working for WoTC?

ishy · Post by **ishy** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:41 pm

I think she is still writing a weekly entry for dragon magazine.

After googling her, she linked to an interview about a book or something she wrote about dnd : http://www.wired.com/geekdad/2011/12/qa ... s-dragons/[/url]